Secondary Infertility

Secondary Infertility... Been on my mind a lot lately. Been feeling a rift and think this could very well have something to do with it.
Being without a child and dealing with infertility sucks. Nothing worse. But a close second is secondary and it comes with it's own set of issues that you can't respect unless you have been there.

"You should feel blessed! You already have children!.. At least you have them!"
Millions of people are allowed to decide (or not and have a "whoops") and are not accused of not appreciating what they have. How am I different? Because I am not simply giving up because well at least I have somewhat of what I wanted? Fuck you. I CAN have what others have and NOT be judged because I WANT MORE.
Honestly its BECAUSE my children are so awesome I want more! I LOVE being a mom. I loved breastfeeding. I love having a house full of kids! So why can;t I have this? because physically it's not happening? Or maybe you feel it's "God's plan" for me not to or fate? Um... Knowing way too many unplanned large families who are MISERABLE tells me otherwise.





Am I robbing my other children? How far do you take TTCMA with SIF? Finances are no longer yours but they belong to a family now and that family has a future full of bills. IVF or college fund? How do you decide? 

Just like IF#1, your friends do not relate. But now all of your friends have kids... And they didn't have problems conceiving. You are an alien to them. What is all this you talk about? Just have sex!! "I don't understand" is the theme and you soon feel like a freak of nature. And most of the time you just don't tell them- or wish you didn't.

It's not all about you. TTCMA beings on many down days. Days where you want to roll up into a ball and not face the world. While holding onto the babes you have is comforting, it's hard to face depression trying to care for others. You don't want your children to suffer and feel drained some days and like it never stops. Hiding under the covers during AF isn't going to happen. IVF pain? Meds have you crazy? You have to keep your cool especially to your little people. So not only in public do you have to remain sane, but at home too.

The worst part of SIF? Your children asking when they will have another sibling. "Why is it taking so long?" The look in their eyes is heartbreaking and the moment you realize that infertility hurts them too? That tears you apart.

Then there is the great divide.... First timers and "us". People struggling with IF with no children have a hard time having empathy (not all- just some) for those who do. There are message boards where you are basically snubbed for even joining if you already have children (the bump). And I can understand to a point. But here's the thing- odd are you will one day be in my shoes. After you win this battle, when you long for another, you will then have this battle and hope that others have empathy for you.

3 weeks pregnant- I hope!

I am shocked at how fast this 2ww is going by... And honestly I think that it has to do with the less stress in my life. I am not sure if it's acupuncture but considering I am so crazy during the 2ww and now not? I have nothing else to attribute it to.
I am feeling really crampy! I hope thats a good sign but wonder if it's maybe the progesterone? I haven;t had cramps until now though.
God I hope this is it... I got the IVF info and the deposit is done. It won't be the end of the world but it would just be awesome to not have to go that route.

It is going to be a long 2ww

And not because I am anxious!
Last night I took my Estradiol and started having hot-flash shortly after. I hoped it was just a coincidence but I rarely have hot-flashes even on clomid. I run COLD.
Anyway, I went to bed a couple hours later only to wake myself by biting my own tongue! WTF?! Who does that??
Ok whatever, no big deal... Went back to sleep to wake to my first full blown night-terror/sleep walk in five + YEARS! It was a good one too! I was up on the bed with the lights on and everything. Good thing Rich wasn't home as he has yet to see me do this and there is nothing like being woke that way LOL! Luckily the boys sleep like the dead (they sleep in our room on another bed- yes I am crazy but it works for us)! They didn't even stir to crazy mom standing on her bed screaming!

So night terrors for me apparently have to do with estrogen? growing up I NEVER talked in my sleep much less walked. Then when I got pregnant with Carter 13 years ago I had my first night terror sleep walking stint and ended up in the bathroom so confused! LOL! They continued the entire pregnancy. Shortly after pregnancy they stopped though. Then a few years later I got pregnant with Landon and they started up right away... But this time they stuck around for 3+ years! I would have them about 4 times a month. My ex was so used to them that he would simply tell me to go back to sleep without even opening his eyes. I swear someone could have been killing me and he would have told me to go back to sleep LOL! So I haven't had one since May of 2008! I have had mini-ones but nothing like my old usual like last night!
I just hope my body gets used to the medication and I don't get this the whole 2ww! OTOH, I might have to get used to it for at least the next nine months! ;)

Vitamins & Supplements

I'm having a hard time deciding what I want to take during the 2ww...
I am already on a multi, probitotic/enzymes, D3. I need to order a B complex because I stopped b12 when I stopped being vegan. I also need to order C because I am out.  Decided to skip the added zinc since my multi has it and read some things on too much zinc.

So I am buying Blue-Green Algae, Spirulina, Royal Jelly (not sure I can remember 3x a day tho),

DIM (Diindolylmethane), Chlorella, Maca and CoQ10

WHEW!

So on the table still is the DEHA and Inositol, which if I start it would be if this cycle doesn't work- but this cycle WILL work  ; ) 


I am having SUCH a hard time with EFA. I don't think vegan has anything for 6 & 9 and I am vegetarian so what the hell do I do? I know it's easy for some to say take fish oil... But this is something I feel so strongly about and I am not sure it's a "take fish oil or no baby!" thing. Do i think it's important? Yes. Do I think it's essential? No.
I did however fine that it looks like Garden of Life RAW CoQ10 has 3/6/9 and I will be on that.

I know it’s not fish oil but I am going to try it ;)

I wonder if I am missing anything? I know my acupuncturist wants to do herbs if we do IVF so I will see what she brings to the table.

My sister got me pregnant.

LOL! Ok so that sounds weird... She went to the IUI with me and kept saying, "I will be saying I was there when you got pregnant!"  <--- dork
Rich had to work so he came before us. When we got there he was leaving and my sister asked why he was there (it's an hour drive btw). I was like uhhhhh????? Are YOU going to give me sperm?! LOL! She was so embarrassed! it never occurred to her! *sigh* I wish i could be that naive again!
She was good company but she was mainly there because she is now seeing my OBGYN and had an appointment later. it worked out well thankfully.

IUI went smoothly :) Did acupuncture this morning too! She is so funny but super sweet. We spoke about positive thoughts and such and things like the power of visualization for achieving your goals. In some ways I think being positive will make me look foolish should it not happen. I also feel like I will be setting myself up for a stronger hurt. So the last 4 cycles or so I have just been so negative. And I know it's not good. it's making me hard. It's also making me depressed. And I can't be like this any longer. Even I am wrong and this doesn't work, at least I tried everything! So I will be more positive :)

While I was at my sister's appointment Dr. Harris called. I had sent a msg freaking out last Friday. He said that the surgery in July is totally fine- no problem. He said to start my BCP CD2 after I do labs. He also said he wasn't worried about my FSH. He likes to see 6-8 but under 10 is fine and he still feels like we will be very successful. That made me feel a lot better but I still feel like it is warning not to screw around. Time is flying and I do not have forever. That level could have been much higher, and then what??

Mid-cycle update

So I took clomid this cycle not knowing about the elevated FSH.
When I was there last Thursday CD8, I had one follie at 12mm. I was worried maybe I would only get one after the crumby test results... I guess you have to prepare for the worst because it looks like I got a decent response! Yay! That one 12mm is now 24mm but I have 3 others trailing behind at 18mm and 16mm. I am not sure those will do anything but at least it something and I have some hope this cycle! That's a change in an of itself! I forgot to ask about lining *doh* but I will be taking Estrogen for 7 days after the IUI. I did the trigger in office today (been doing it at home lately so that was weird) and IUI I am doing tomorrow. Normally I do 36 hr IUI but that has yet to work for me and the one cycle I did get PG was a 24hr IUI. We also BD'd Saturday night and I did pressed JIC for CM issues.
So....
Today CD 12 Trigger
CD13 acupuncture then IUI
CD14-20 Estrongen & progesterone (progesterone continued)

i am trying not to be too hopeful but it's been a long while since I had any hope for any cycle it seems! I pray this is it! I don;t want to have to go through IVF!!! I have never been "that case" or "that woman" who in the ninth inning pulled it off... I hope for once I get to be THAT person!

This is an uphill battle even if I get PG though. I have the polyp that increases my chances of m/c. Scary but my Dr said she would still have tried this cycle.
I got a call on my way to the scan scheduling my surgery for July 8th to remove it.

So if there is no PGY next cycle:
CD3 all bloodwork redone
CD3 start BCP
7/8 surgery

Oh and I started acupuncture last week finally! It was interesting... I believe that it works in a scientific way, I am a vegetarian, homeschooling attachment parent... Yet when she talks about Yin and such, I have to hold back giggles because it all sounds so weird and hokey. But it was relaxing! And I do feel less stress!

BLEH! SIS and CD3 Bloodwork

So I had my SIS and it went ok. Crampy during and messy but physically fine. She found a small polyp though *sigh* So that has to be removed next month. It could be worse I know, but I was hoping for an all “all clear!” for the IVF- not another thing.

Then she peeked at my follicles. I have ONE at 12mm. Nothing else standing out. I was so hoping since I am back on clomid that she would have seen more :( I wished I’d actually taken more clomid too now.

I go back Monday for a follicle check.

Lastly to round off my crappy morning, I got my CD3 blood work back:

FSH:  9.7 

LH 8.7

TSH: 2.12

E2: 39

Prolactin 13.1

When we first started TTCMA this time around 2/12:

FSH:  7.7 

LH 6.0

TSH: 1.42

Prolactin 2.9

I can’t help but see the increase in numbers and therefore decrease in my fertility. Yes I know it could be worse, but just another thing. And a reminder I don’t have time to screw around. Is it September yet?

Then she peeked at my follicles. I have ONE at 12mm. Nothing else standing out. I was so hoping since I am back on clomid that she would have seen more :( I wished I’d actually taken more clomid too now.

I go back Monday for a follicle check.

Lastly to round off my crappy morning, I got my CD3 blood work back:

FSH:  9.7 

LH 8.7

TSH: 2.12

E2: 39

Prolactin 13.1

When we first started TTCMA this time around 2/12:

FSH:  7.7 

LH 6.0

TSH: 1.42

Prolactin 2.9

I can’t help but see the increase in numbers and therefore decrease in my fertility. Yes I know it could be worse, but just another thing. And a reminder I don’t have time to screw around. Is it September yet?

PCOS? WTF?

I loved my RE with the boys. Let me start by saying that. (Well actually I loved my NP under our RE- I disliked both REs but rarely saw them so it was moot.)
But what i don't understand is why they diagnosed me with PCOS and didn't tell me?
During the IVF consult he kept saying with "your PCOS" so after the second time I asked why he kept saying that. He said my records for both boys said PCOS.
I have ALWAY thought I had PCOS but assumed since I do not have cystic ovaries that I didn't. I have every other symptom in the book though. They tried metformin with one of the boys so obviously they treated me as I had PCOS.
When TTC this time around, my weight is under control and most of my PCOS symptoms decreased (not the hair issue tho sadly- that is as bad as ever). So I put it in the back of my mind and never asked recently. But I think when you have PCOS and get your weight down, it helps with the symptoms so that would make sense.
I have a laundry list of symptoms starting so early in my life but it makes it more clear. I feel overwhelmed and wonder if there is even a point in researching since I am now headed to IVF? I also don't know if knowing about the PCOS would have made a difference in treatment.

So it’s official… well almost.

So yesterday I met with Kaiser IVF- Dr. Harris.

The building is new to me but the practice is the same one that helped me conceive the boys. It was nice that they had access to those records.

Dr. Harris- I really like him. He is very personable. It’s funny tho, he comes across like he is going to sell you something but yet is NO pressure. I think Rich said it best- he thinks about everything he says before he says it and he is an awesome communicator and speaker. I am not normally impressed by this as it comes across as fake, but he is still able to come across genuine. He also has a lot of confidence without being cocky. It made me feel reassured he knew what he was doing. I like the last IVF Dr we met too so I wondered if they had the same SART ratings and fees who would I pick? I’m not sure as I liked them both… But I think I would go with Kaiser because they worked for me in the past.

So I was raised you don’t talk money and I think many people feel the same. But so often I have wondered how much IVF fees cost others so I am going to be open here. If people take issue with that, they can simply not read ;)

So Fertility Physicians of Northern California is who I met first and they charged $10,500 without meds. Kaiser is $9,300. FPNC had packages through an outside company (http://www.arcfertility.com/) whereas Kaiser doesn’t offer financing or “packages”. I can’t remember what FET was or ICSI fee was but for Kaiser ICSI is $1800 and FET is $2500 (without meds). Both included freezing for 6 months but then Kaiser hooks you up with an outside company if you want long term storage for $400YR.

Basically Kaiser was slightly cheaper and the SART rates were better.  

https://www.sartcorsonline.com/rptCSR_PublicMultYear.aspx?ClinicPKID=2070

vs.

https://www.sartcorsonline.com/rptCSR_PublicMultYear.aspx?ClinicPKID=2178

The bay area rates suck in general but Kaiser appears to have the best and they are aware of this. They also are meeting me at the Santa Clara location for everything but the retrieval and IVF so that will save me time and money.

So dates… August is already booked so I had to go with September. I don’t think I would make the cutoffs for August anyway since they want you on BCP no later than 7-1 and AF is due 7-4.

When AF arrives I will start BCP. I will have the trial transfer in July and my IVF class is 8-21. Then Procedure Week would be Sept 8^th-14^th depending on how I respond.

I’m not sure about anything beyond that as I haven’t gotten the calendar but he showed me it and it’s pretty complete and easy to follow!

So now onto us and his thoughts- He said with our history and stats that he is very optimistic this will work and most likely on the first cycle. He said that he would not recommend assisted hatching for me and said that ICSI was up to us but he doesn’t see a need. He went on to say that 80% of people he does recommend ICSI but because we got pg recently, because I respond so well to meds and because of DH high count, he doesn’t think we will need it.

All of that was good to hear BUT I know enough to know that things don’t necessarily happen how they are supposed to. I was supposed to be PG by now according to the Drs. and REs I spoke with! And I have read enough online to know that IVFs fail- even ones that seem so perfect! So I am not counting my chickens before they hatch! I went in wanting ICSI and I still do. But I did learn that I can decide after the retrieval! He said if I have a large amount of eggs that I might not want to do that. He wants us to have frosties but not a ton so it’s something we should decide after we see how many eggs are taken. That makes sense to me. I also do not want leftovers if I can help it… As it is that is the part I am most torn about. What to do with ‘leftovers’ and it is the only thing that truly makes me hate this process.

I am trying to think if I missed anything…

I was concerned about OHSS but Dr. Harris was very reassuring and feels he can get it done without OHSS happening. He said he monitors very carefully and because of my high response to clomid he would keep an extra close eye on me. I felt so much better about that!

I am not looking forward to two months of BCPs and waiting. But I have no other choice and will have to make the best of it. I am still doing Weight Watchers and I am down 5 pounds. I want to lose 5-10 pounds more and figure I can use those 2 months to get in shape. Like training for a marathon ;) Well not really since that’s not good for your fertility ;)

I have some tests and paperwork to get in order for all this. I have my SIS on Thursday morning and funny enough they would have required me to do it within 3 months anyway so that worked out perfect! I am still waiting on my CD3 bloodwork and I would have had to redo those too, so I am already on the ball! ;)

So I feel good having a plan in place but I so hope this cycle works. I should have been able to do this with IUI but I am sure most people who do IVF think that too :/

I am hoping to get a peak at my follicles on Thursday and I hope we have 4! I am back on clomid so I hope my bpdy still responds well!! PLEASE LET THIS CYCLE DO IT!!!

Starting clomid tonight

Can't believe I am doing clomid again!! But I feel better doing clomid than the femara. I want more follicles. I am hoping for 4.
I got my follicle scan date for the 17th. And so the IUI will most likely be the 19th. So here's the thing- my sister is going to be seeing my Dr for her OBGYN care and I am taking her. When? the 18th! So I will be driving up to the city 3 days in a row! uhg! Oh well.

I am so much more focused on the IVF appointment on Monday right now. I am anxious. I want to know when the cycle- mainly if they do groups. I have heard they do so that could delay things and I just wanna do this!

Cycle 23

AF is here.
So I should be super bummed but I am so caffeinated that I'm not LOL! Sad but 2 cups of coffee and I am hyper! LOL!
but no, honestly it helps my mood. I treat myself to caffeine when AF is coming and then cut it off a couple days into AF before I start meds.
I miss caffeine! And whats funny is I have never been a huge caffeine drinker! I never needed it to survive or anything. I actually didn't start "using" it until I started working out because it would help my workouts and runs.
I think with depression I always feel so run down and wish i had caffeine to just help with some of that :(

So interesting... AF is here ON TIME for once! I took my progesterone orally this cycle and stopped later than I normally do vaginally (stopped at 12dpo this last cycle and I normally stop 11dpo vaginally) yet AF arrive on time for once! Normally it's 4-7 days after the last pill vaginally so thats interesting!

I called to schedule the SIS and follicle scan but they have no openings so I have to wait to hear back... arg, Oh well. I will get my dates soon enough.

DH's info

I'm tired of looking for this post every time I need it so figured it would put it here since it's relevant anyhow.
• Vit C (500-1500 mg/day)
• Vitamin E (400-800 i.u. per day)
• Zinc (15-60 mg/day)
• B-12 (10-100 mcg/day
• Selenium (100-200 mcg/day)
• Co-enzyme-Q10 (30-100 mg/day)
• Raw men's multi-vitamin
• Essential fatty acids (EFA)
• L-Arginine (2-4 g)
• Baby Asprin (80mg)
• Guaifenesin (100mg)
• Vitamin D3
And now 25mg clomid daily


FertilAid does contain a lot of these but we went separate supplements because in the long run I think it's cheaper and I knew he would be taking these for awhile.
http://www.justmommies.com/forums/f74-trying-to-conceive-medical-assistance/2610067-dhs-supplements.html

And then DH's  SA from the UR that specializes in fertility